Some Questions And Inconsistencies On The Carvajal Affair

July 27, 2014


There are too many  unanswered questions about the Carvajal affair. Too many inconsistencies. I have been wondering about them, some I have seen asked elsewhere, others not. So, here is my list of mysteries surrounding this affair:

-Knowing that General Carvajal was in the US Drug kingpin list since 2008, why did the Maduro Government name him as Consul to Aruba?

-Did the Venezuelan Government ever notify The Netherlands of Carvajal’s nomination as Consul to Aruba? El Universal says it never happened.

-Why did Carvajal, knowing about the extradition treaty between The Netherlands and the US travel to Aruba before he had been given the placet or approval by The Netherlands?

-Why did Maduro want to name Carvajal as Consul to Aruba specifically? Is it related to the island being an offshore financial center?

-Why would a legal resident of the US, lend or lease his US company’s jet to someone in the US drug kingpin list in the Patriot’s Act era?

-Why hasn’t Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jaua said a “pio” (beep) about the Carvajal detention, given that it was his underling that was jailed and a diplomatic immunity issue raised?

-People keep discussing the legalese of whether Carvajal had or not immunity, citing the Vienna Convention to argue both for and against. Doesn’t this article from that convention perfectly clear that he did not have immunity, since Carvajal could not take up his post until approved by The Netherlands?:

Article 39

  1. Every person entitled to privileges and immunities shall enjoy them from the moment he enters the territory of the receiving State on proceeding to take up his post

-Who ordered the ban on flights between Venezuela and Aruba? Who rescinded the order? Why on both?

-Was the cancellation of Rafael Ramirez’ trip to New York to meet with investors related to the Carvajal affair?

-Did Carvajal really try to cut a deal with the US in 2012, as reported,more here?

-Was it Chávez that stopped any investigation of Carvajal by the Prosecutor when drug dealer Makled made very explicit and specific accusations against the General?

-The US Government only requested Carvajal’s extradition on July 4th. 2014, 20 days before Carvajal’s detention.Was this coincidence, a change in US policy or they learned Carvajal was already going back and forth between Aruba and Venezuela?

-How does Carvajal explain the multiple passports, the $20K and the private jet he arrived in? Was one of the passports fake as suggested by a Miami newspaper?

-Is there really a connection between Carvajal’s removal as Head of Military intelligence and the fact that a number of Colombian drug dealers were captured in Venezuela following his retirement?

-Is it true that Carvajal was really disliked if not hated by the “ideological” wing of Chavismo?

-Can you be a serious General and be nicknamed ” El Pollo” at the same time?

There, if any of you have others, add them in the comments and if can clarify any, please do. Something does not make sense in this story.

78 Responses to “Some Questions And Inconsistencies On The Carvajal Affair”

  1. Kiara Says:

    In fact no matter if someone doesn’t understand afterward its up to other users that they will help, so here it happens.

  2. Juan Largo Says:

    From a reliable source: The freak out over retrieving a man already retired from his military duties was owing to what he would say to US authorities. There is no question the American feds would cut a deal with El Pollo – his freedom, so long as he sang – or rather, quacked – about all of Venezuela government involvement in narco jive and so forth. As the former head of Military Intel, The Chicken must know as much as anyone per the sordid goings on during the Chavez era, and if that ever got made public, it would have been a PR disaster, coming as it did from a former high ranking official.

  3. concerned Says:

    What if the chicken planned to cash out? Except, instead of cutting a deal he finds that what he has to sell isn’t worth the economic harm to the Dutch resulting from his extradition. His “abduction” serves as a cover over his intentions and buys him a trip home. Question is, are the Cuban masters amused?

  4. Please read the full text of the Vienna convention. It does seem to provide a loophole to allow the chicken to cross the road. I read he was nominated as a consul? This means they could grab the guy, grab the phones, then release him.

  5. I suspect it was done for the phones.

  6. D2 Says:

    Carvajal is way above and beyond a lot of this speculation. He is doing big business deals with big businessmen. I do think he got his start with narcotics and gunrunning but is trying to leave that behind and is now in the world of oil multinationals and the like. He’s a total regime insider with probable blood on his hands. His capture would have been a big loss as he was expected to sing like a canary. The US indictment does not say much about his activities but this guy was and is the tip of the spear.

  7. D2 Says:

    Folks, Carvajal ran counterintelligence until then end of 2013. He is not being setup. Carvajal has been taunting US DEA for years. What really happened in Aruba is up for speculation but the arrest was suspect from the moment it happened. That arrest is such a political hot potato that it has to be vetted the Secretary of State, The US Attorney General, and finally the President of the U.S. There is precedent in many Latin American countries and Caribbean islands. Was the operation a failure? It depends on what where the real motives. There where a lot of irregularities with the arrest and subsequent detention. If Carvajal had five cellular phones then that alone is reason to nab him. Those who have been following NSA disclosures will understand the capabilities and means. Venezuela is unlike Brasil, Mexico and Colombia for the NSA…it’s hostile. It makes all the sense in the world to do this fishing expedition if the jackpot was five cellular phones and related electronics. I have to assume the NSA is now Venezuela capable through back door means as described in Snowden files but the window of opportunity is closing as the leaks disclosed NSA techniques. If the NSA has been siphoning and archiving then Carvajal’s cell phones will paint a clearer picture. It was dumb of Carvajal to allow himself to be entrapped like that…he should have known about the judges arrest days prior. I knew the arrest was flimsy from the moment it happened and I also know that Aruba and Curacao cannot whether the wrath of the Bolivarians so this operation was hokey from the start. The actions of Dutch authorities lead me to believe there is some collusion and coordination but I cannot tell how high this goes and if the Dutch are pissed at the Americans over this. The americans are not ready nor prepared to see this case and its ramnifications through. It’s completely out of character for the Americans to be picking a fight now with Venezuela.

  8. anagrammatt2 Says:

    Reblogged this on anagrammatt2 and commented:
    More than Bizarre, Surreal…! They all go back to the mire of “money power” after jail, like NORIEGA…!

  9. anagrammatt2 Says:

    More than Bizarre, Surreal…! They all go back to the mire of “money power” after jail, like NORIEGA…!

  10. […] Miguel Octavio has a lot more questions: […]

  11. Arco Says:

    Here’s your possible reason:

    Kick out Shell and Damen (Dutch companies) out of Venezuela and Russia! So Poetin was involved as well.
    And I guess that we do not care that much about a couple of kilos of coke in the Streets of the US and why should we give a damm about the FARC?

    Maybe the US want to buy our ABC-islands? I’m sure its going to be cheap! Lot of problems less for the Dutch and a big savings.

  12. Marijke van der Plas Says:

    Am sure that now that this “el Pollo” has been released, there are a million more questions. What corruption there is now in thei terrible World of ours. Horrifying!

  13. […] Miguel Octavio has a lot more questions: -Why did Maduro want to name Carvajal as Consul to Aruba specifically? Is it related to the island being an offshore financial center? […]

  14. Kepler Says:


    1- The bloke presented a fake passport (actually, he had 2). That is for sure.
    It is very unlikely he went there to pick up the placet and would use such a passport.
    2- Timmermans set him free after 11 pm Dutch time on a Sunday.

  15. Jeffry A. House Says:

    If Netherlands told Chicken to proceed to Aruba to pick up his credentials, and if he were arrested while on his way to do so, he would have diplomatic immunity. This is not an end run around a judge, who only decides whether or not a sufficient criminal case could be made out by the requesting power, the US.

    The judge has no jurisdiction over the question of diplomatic immunity as that is a decision of the Executive.

    There are still some anomalies, but I think the above is the likeliest explanation.

    It would be worth following up on the question of whose plane he was using, since that person would almost certainly have been apron idling material help to a named terrorist group or person” contrary to various anti-terrorist statutes.

    Once Chicken aids FARC, anyone who helps him is taking their life into their hands.

  16. N Smith Says:

    Miguel, you asked me WHO will accept VEF for bitcoin: here is the answer: his name is dac1980:

    He says on reddit: I offer the best price in localbitcoins! (now 49697.80 VEF / BTC but it’s linked to bitstamp’s BTC/USD) with national bank transfer (Mercantil, Banesco, Provincial, Banco de Venezuela and BOD).
    100% successfuls trades (9 trades with 3 users). You can do several small trades to reduce risks.

    • moctavio Says:

      I am sure someone claims they do it, what I question is that there are any transactions, nobody wants to change hard currency for weak Bs., I see the local black market daily, its dry, no volume. Just friends and family transactions.

    • Island Canuck Says:

      I concur with Miguel.
      Very hard to do transactions these days.

    • Lecherous Drunk Says:

      At 49697.8 and the uS dollar at 584, bitcoin V is basically arbitraging.
      Buy at Bolivars at 85 to the dollar and sell black market at 76 to the dollar.

      Someone is making 9 Bolivars a dollar for every $ worth of Bitcoin he trades for Bolivars and can get to the black market to trade for $, or 11% minus expenses/fees.

      If this individual has someone to buy his Bolivars for $ at black market rates immediately at todays rates for an agreed delivery date in the short future, little risk for 11%.

      Go DAC1980, I have never used Bitcoin, looked inot it and thought there was nothing there.

      How does he collect the Bolivars? Debit card?

      • Lecherous Drunk Says:

        Holy shit!!!

        Anyone with a business in Venezuela and a bitcoin account can accept A debit transaction for Bolivars, return bitcoins, claim you sold your “real” product at an official rate, and apply to Sicad 2 for $ to buy more of your product!

        If I wasn’t drunk, and if I had a business in venezuela, there is no way I would tell you this!! But unless I am wrong, bitcoin (if Venezulea does not know you have it, is the perfect way to collect Bolivars at a black market rate, claim you sold (chicken, batteries, razors, sheetrock, whatever),

        Collect all the Bolivars you can!! let them use the debit card to try to store wealth in bitcoin (I think its a dutch tulip, but thats just me, you are selling bitcoins, not storing them), you have a debit card receipt for sold chicken, now you have chicken you have to sell on the black market (profit), and you have Bolivvars at the black market rate (or better), which you can now sell for $ or aply for Sicad to import more chicken!!!!


        Need bitcoin account and a way to put $ into it.
        Need a way to accept CC/debit card to look like normal transaction.
        Need customers who want bitcoins.
        Need someone to sell the chicken to!!!
        Simply use SICAD $ for foreign exporter.

        I have a US company that wires $ to multiple Latin American companies/countries without issues.
        And I cannot think of any US law that says I cannot $ into bitocoins and back again for profit by using it to buy Bolivars.

        Good luck all with your new bitcoin accounts.

  17. concerned Says:

    Why would the Dutch, not Aruba, free this man? If Venezuela stopped flights and closed its refinery it would hurt Aruba more than the Dutch homeland;What could Maduro/Castro do to the Netherlands?

    • Kepler Says:

      I do not know but Aruba is still part of the Netherlands. It might be that the Netherlands didn’t want to come up with the bill if the Aruba economy suffers too much. The Dutch have to pay Aruba for so many things…so
      This is just a guess. But in any case: had Aruba become affected by some Venezuelan action, it would have been the Dutch who would have had to send the money.

  18. Rafael Pérez Says:

    Luego de la liberación del pollo a Venezuela por determinación del Ministro de Relaciones Exteriores de Holanda hay muchísimas más preguntas sin contestar. Como es posible que luego que la Fiscal General y un juez determinan que el prisionero no tenía inmunidad diplomática un funcionario del ejecutivo libera al prisionero y sale de regreso a Venezuela, explicando las autoridades que el pollo sí tenía inmunidad. Si tenía inmunidad, por que sale de Aruba rumbo a Venezuela. No era necesario un recurso de apelación a una instancia judicial, necesaria que liberara al detenido dando con lugar la inmunidad diplomática. No se supone que los tribunales no están en funciones los fines de semana. Como quedan las autoridades de Holanda y Aruba ante este increíble FIASCO.

  19. Morpheous Says:

    The Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans was who decided Carvajal did have immunity. See:

  20. Noel Says:

    Poor America, our government is held is such low regard that even tiny Aruba defies it! Or we are incapable of getting the paperwork right. We are really in need of a change.

    • Lecherous Drunk Says:

      I cannot make a descision yet.
      The US kept its mouth shut until he was sent back.
      Then the US issued silly staements of disappointment.

      The US and the Dutch may have known this would happen all along.
      I actually agree with the ruling that he was nominated and waiting for approval, to remove immunity of anone waiting for official approval would caused havoc in the diplomatic world.
      The Ducth/US knew he has a diplomatic passport waiting for approval. (I think, either that or he was given a diplomats passport in case of emergency and Aruba was notified intentionally because he would have been denied)
      The notion that he was set up by fellow Bolivarians when his tesitimony might mean that the top 100 Chavistas would never be allowed to leave Venezula again seems a risk that they would not take.

      This cannot be the first time he entered Aruba nor the first time he used a flase passport. He was nominated for the post in January.
      Every other entry was”succesful” but perhaps monitored and US/Dutch waiting for the right time (or this was the first timethe CIA/Dutch noticed).

      His accounts in Aruba may now be inaccessible if his signature is required. They may require his signature or death certificate from heir. Money have now been frozen without any US/Dutch legal direction to banks ( or perhaps telling each bank with each account this is now your policy. $ Billions could now be frozen).
      He had cellphones the US may have wanted to know numbers and history for cases against others (say the owner of the jet for instance, or other arrest warrants)

      The US/Dutch may have actually planned this for 6 months and we will never know. It all may be done to make it look like a Dutch judge took on the mighty empire (and ensuring that CIA agents everywhere now get catch and release treatment if they have “applied” for diplo status).

      This may be a success, intentionally made to look like failure.
      Or it was just dumb luck they knew his 1st passport was fake and no one had any clue of the outcome.
      The CIA takes too much of my money, I hope they did something smart here.

  21. syd Says:

    there must be a legal loophole that “allows” temporary immunity of a consul, named by and representing country X, while in host country Y, awaiting placet by said country Y or its colonial master Z.

    there must also be some legal interpretation of instances where, upon background checks, the consul is found to be inappropriate by country Y or Z, and in this case, said consul is deemed persona non grata, sent packing.

    Evidently, such is the case with Chicken Carvajal.

    Why there was no application of the extradition treaty between the Netherlands and the US is a question seeking answers.

    • moctavio Says:

      My reading of the Vienna convention (I am no lawyer) is that such temporary immunity applies only if you happened to be in the country that you were named to be a representative to, when you were named.

      What puzzles me, is the lack of institutionality in this case, a Judge made a ruling on Friday, the decision was bypassed by The Netherlans. I would have thought that a lawyer of the Dutch Government would have gone to the same Court on Monday, not a decision rescinded when it is nightime in The Netherlands. Very strange.

  22. Patricia Says:

    He is coming back to Venezuela. Increible!

    Sent from my BlackBerry Q5

  23. Clarifies little. Why was it done despite Judges decision? Why on a Sunday? I would have thought they had to go thru the motions of a Court.

  24. Arco Says:

    this will answer some of your questions

    how shamefull…

  25. moctavio Says:

    I saw a live press conference by some Aruba Govt. official, my papiamento is poor, but it certainly sounded like the reporters were saying Aruba does not look serious on this now.

  26. Arco Says:

    right now the dutch newspapers are saying hat Jaua is saying. but no official notification of Aruba/holland yet.

  27. Arco Says:

    First this:

    then 3 hours later this:

    In Holland it is 6,5 hours later and a Sunday. Also Minister Timmermans is busy with importent stuff like the Ukraine, No time for chicken.
    But they might move chicken for security reasons. Venezuela rather want a dead chicken then a live one, they say.

  28. Deanna Says:

    One point to remember in all this, the queen of the Netherlands is or was Argentinian. Does Jaua happen to know her personally?

  29. metodex Says:

    Se los dije a todos, no iba a pasar nada. Otra cosita mas que los chavistas nos pueden restregar en la cara.
    Y yo pensando que de verdad fuera de Venezuela todo seria diferente.

  30. syd Says:

    ‏3 de @marquina04:

    Hay q ser bien inocente para creerle a Elias Jaua, esperen y verán q todo es una mentira

    Falsa la información de Jaua, autoridades de Aruba NO tienen pensado liberar al narco Hugo Carvajal

    Ministro de Justicia de Aruba, “Carvajal NO tiene status diplomático”

  31. moctavio Says:

    Latest news: Jaua says The Netherlands will free him. Strange on a Sunday, but as I said in the previous post, anything is possible.

  32. xp Says:

    ND / 27 jul 2014.- Los periodistas Sofía Nederr y Hernán Lugo-Galicia del El Nacional aseguran este domingo que el mayor general Hugo Carvajal gestionó su entrega a la DEA desde mayo de este año.

    • syd Says:

      Eso tiene más sentido, de que haya sido una auto-entrega de parte de Carvajal.

      Lo cómico sería si fuese cierto la delegación Jaua-Maduro a Aruba para liberar a Carvajal, el mismo pidiendo a las autoridades arubeñas por la debida protección, en contra de los que en un tiempo fueron compinches.


    • Roy Says:

      Aahhh… So Jaua went straight to the king, instead of dealing with their Foreign Minister…??? WTF???

      Not to mention that Willem-Alexander would only politely tell him to take his silly-ass problem down the hall.

      This is obviously only for Venezuelan domestic consumption during the ongoing Chavista Congress.

      • Kepler Says:

        I don’t judge but he didn’t say “rey”, he said “reino”.
        He meant “the Netherlands”

        • Roy Says:

          Point taken. Still, I doubt that even the proper authorities of the Netherlands would have given Jaua any such assurances over the weekend.

  33. Roy Says:

    All good questions, though the speculation about Carvajal desiring the position because of the opportunities for money laundering seems obvious.

    But, when we look at the Venezuelan government’s reaction, we see various responses (or lack of responses in the case of Jaua). What is important to take from them is that they are not consistent and coordinated. Why is that? Is it only because this occurred during what is effectively a four-day weekend? Or, is it more indicative of Maduro not being in control of the ship of state?

  34. Astounded Says:

    The maduro government has the most to lose with the chickens detention, I believe they tried to protect themselves by granting him diplomatic immunity, ill conceived or not, possibly by chickens own request, this led to monumental F*** Ups by all involved, DEA may have seen this developing and allowed it to play out, the owner of the the transport is either involved with DEA or the chicken, or the Gov. Al fin just another chapter of this absurd saga.

  35. Paul Says:

    I can only imagine the “goodies” that Carvajal would have received in his “diplomatic pouches”. Bienvenidos to the USA scumbag!

  36. syd Says:

    So, part of what you may be saying, Miguel, is this:

    – Maduro (aka Castro’s et al) names Carvajal as Consul to Aruba, but doesn’t notify The Netherlands of this. Meaning, Carvajal is set up for a pretend post as Consul to Aruba.

    – For Carvajal, the offered carrot at the end of the stick is that Aruba is an offshore financial centre (ooooh, money laundering!) and that the placet will protect him from any foreign interventions.

    – Presumably, the Maduro government tells Carvajal that he now has placet by The Netherlands.

    – Carvajal is tricked into thinking that he has placet, which will give him diplomatic immunity against any possible extradition treaty between The Netherlands and the US.

    – The Maduro government knew that as soon as Carvajal landed in Aruba, without a real placet, and a phoney passport to boot, the extradition machinery would get into high gear.

    – As for “El Pollo”: revolutionary nom-de-plume. Meaning, Carvajal is a phoney general, ergo the phoney passport.

  37. TV Says:

    A plot to remove a dangerous adversary using the US by Chavizmo elite, or just another major fuck-up by incompetent Chavizmo regime?

    Despite your misgivings, I vote for the latter any day of the week.

  38. Alberto Says:

    Remember Maximilian Arbelaíz and the failed nomination to USA Ambassador. Maximilian is now a second range Official at the Embassy. Diplomatic Inmunity?

  39. R. Apitz Says:

    It seems that there is not a misunderstanding but just flat ignorance about Diplomatic immunity. Only the Ambassador have it, Consul do not because they are “Funcionarios Consulares”. So it is just BS discussing this point.

    • R.A.C. Says:

      Me respondo yo mismo: Aparentemente Holanda piensa diferente !! A pesar de que segun decían NO había otorgado el placet.

  40. Kepler Says:

    This is weird. As I told you and wrote in my blog, the Telegraaf wrote about his appointment back in January: the opposition in Aruba asked the local government why that guy could be consul and the Aruba government said it was up to Den Haag to approve it.
    De Telegraaf is one of the best known newspapers in the Netherlands. So: people knew it in ABC and even in the Netherlands.

    And here you have this from June:
    “There was no request”
    And none other than Timmermans says so.
    2- they say the Aruba premier didn’t know in February about any agreement or approval.

    It seems as if someone had been letting Carvajal think things were going on well or the like.
    Aruba knew he was named consul in January but everybody in Aruba and in Den Haag said they hadn’t received a formal petition.

    • Kepler Says:

      A take: Jaua or someone related to him set him up.
      But that would mean Carvajal would be incredibly incredibly stupid.

      • Mac Says:

        Or all the way around, given that Carvajal as former Inteligence boss may have a lot of information…

        • Kepler Says:

          Could be.
          The funny thing is how the Dutch press is discussing Carvajal since January and they keep wondering and wondering…and no one on the diplomatic side of Venezuela found out about this?
          I know few of the “diplomatic” Venezuelan employees speak Dutch or French or German or whatever language they have to speak but how could all of them have overlooked this?
          No idea.

  41. captainccs Says:

    No wonder I was not getting email notifications

  42. captaincs Says:

    90% incompetence? 5% indolence? 5% malice?

  43. moctavio Says:

    There was an Aruba paper with a picture of the plane. That is the most solid one.

  44. Steven/Setty Says:

    Have you seen any solid source reporting that he flew on N9GY, the Rincóns’ little old jet? All I see is some random tweets and gossip, no solid info

    • jaimerequena Says:

      What is going on? Why the Netherlands set free the man? It was said that Aruba consulted with The Hague on the issue of diplomatic immunity and they agreed that the chicken could be fried. This is far to weird and clearly a victory for Maduros’ diplomacy

      • moctavio Says:

        I dont know what is going on, as I said yesterday, all three countries put pressure on the others and t was a game of money and power, somehow, Venezuela won, the US lost.

      • MA Says:

        According to Dutch newspapers this morning it seems the Dutch foreign ministry changed its mind over the weekend . The Aruba foreign ministry “head official” says they asked the Dutch foreign ministry for advice after the arrest and were at first told that Carvajal had no diplomatic immunity. Then on Sunday minister Timmermans decided that he did have immunity, thus apparently contradicting his own officials. The article goes on to report that the Americans were “disappointed”. Link to the Algemeen Dagblad, the Volkskrant has a very similar story:

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